Monty visits the blokes....

[Dave Burgess]

Re: Monty visits the blokes....

Thaz deffo young fer thi age Jim, just like I,m small fer mi height.

[bob9739]

Re: Monty visits the blokes....

Know what the old saying is Dave, long and thin goes right in, but short and thick does the trick.

[Forever Young]

Re: Monty visits the blokes....

Well Dave is certainly short but only thick in the head

[Dave Burgess]

Re: Monty visits the blokes....

Flattery will get you anything Ian!

[Gil]

Re: Monty visits the blokes....

There you go a real soldier in the correct kit with a maroon machine. Downloading images works for me

[Don the Mod]

Re: Monty visits the blokes....

I think the 403 still exists, but the image problem sees to be sorted...thank fukk.

[Gil]

Re: Monty visits the blokes....

Not going to raise "that old chestnut", but a new super dooper site would be very beneficial for all of us that don't do Facebook.Even if it is only 50 members, thats the most active ones then on here ha ha!!
Post some good PARA stories and they shall come!

[trubrit2411]

Re: Monty visits the blokes....

Gil.... That's a good snap of Monty. Must have been the fifties because by 1968 he looked really old to this 20 year old. he came floating past in an open topped car. A big black Roller I think, and he was in a blue long coat with a fur collar and a Cocked hat on. I could'nt believe how tiny he looked. He was advanced in age by then though. <br>
<br>You know when ever I go on WWII Vids I see it very popular to make owd Monty the whipping boy for The Arnhem Bridge not getting taken to complete that thrust into N Germany..... but when you weigh that plan up as a whole it was a very good and daring plan. Something that came like a bolt from the blue for the Krauts.<br>
<br>It would have worked a treat but for three things. One of which admittedly was a gamble but the other two short of a crystal ball could not be foreseen by Monty himself in the war room...surely. The single road across Holland maybe....maybe should have been studied, and probably was. Bet he thought 30 Corps with hard sustained effort could mow its way up their and link up with all those Airborne troops and they did. It just took longer. <br>
<br>What Monty could not predict and neither could anybody else was that Bittrich's Panzer Brigade would be posted there a just before the operation. There was no way he could see that. The other was the radios not working. A General has the right to expect that the radios in his Army.......... work. Its that simple. <br>
His plan would have succeeded if any one of those three factors had been absent. If the single road had been the M1. If the radios had worked.... and most of all if Bittrich with his Panzerwagens were sipping coffee in Amsterdam, instead of Arnhem, the Allies would have come pissing over those four bridges.... poured into Germany and knocked the war off a lot earlier. <br><br>Just like Monty predicted.

(No idea what those <br>'s are. I left them on so Don could see them. I will take them off later. I just got roped into helpin' the Tindlemonster move his worldly possesions so I am out the door. Quick move)

[Gil]

Re: Monty visits the blokes....

Its off the wall at White City 4 PARA (10 PARA) Officers Mess..............must be fairly unique

[standinthedoor]

Re: Monty visits the blokes....

A Major who fought at Arnhem in 156th Bn Para Reg has just passed away, finished his military service in 1 Para in about 1956.Maj Jeff Noble died aged 96. He apparently remained 'haunted' by the losses of men from 156th Bn (never knew such a Bn existed) think some 27 of his Bn crossed the water to safety at the end of the battle from over 800 that dropped. his take on Arnhem (and who could argue with him) was that there were some poor planning at high command and some naivety amongst planners, but felt 'the gamble was worth while'. Had it come off he figured the allies would have been in Berlin while the Russians were still in Warsaw and the war would have been shortened by at least 6 months'. Another from that unique generation gone RIP Maj Jeff Noble, formerly 156 Bn Para, latterly 1 Para.

[bob9739]

Re: Monty visits the blokes....

A lot of blame has been cast at Monty for Arnhem, but I believe although with his ego he wanted to get over the Rhine before the Americans, there were other people who didn't quite come up to the mark in the planning department Browning certainly didn't accept his part in ignoring the 6P's , I think we all know in hindsight of course, that the Germans did not just consist of what Horrocks, described as the stomach Brigade, all old men with ailments who would have marched quite happily into captivity. But German SS units combat experienced from the Eastern Front refitting. together with German Parachute and flack units made a quite formidable enemy. And to have relied on relief from XXX Corps traveling down a single span road with enemy units holding defensive positions, and easily supported by other German units which could be called up to assist just beggars belief. I believe the Americans termed it Hell's Highway. And having read about it, it was well named ! Antony Beevor's book Arnhem brings a lot of good point to the fore, and had they been noted perhaps the Market Garden, may have had a different result. So we all have to ask ourselves the question was the loss of so many brave men worth it, The polish General Sosabowski believes not, I wonder how many other participants in the battle agree with him ?

[trubrit2411]

Re: Monty visits the blokes....

A Major who fought at Arnhem in 156th Bn Para Reg has just passed away, finished his military service in 1 Para in about 1956.Maj Jeff Noble died aged 96. He apparently remained 'haunted' by the losses of men from 156th Bn (never knew such a Bn existed) think some 27 of his Bn crossed the water to safety at the end of the battle from over 800 that dropped. his take on Arnhem (and who could argue with him) was that there were some poor planning at high command and some naivety amongst planners, but felt 'the gamble was worth while'. Had it come off he figured the allies would have been in Berlin while the Russians were still in Warsaw and the war would have been shortened by at least 6 months'. Another from that unique generation gone RIP Maj Jeff Noble, formerly 156 Bn Para, latterly 1 Para.

What I don't understand is.....from the Normandy landings on, why the Kraut Officer Korps did not kill all the twats responsible for the whole War and just surrender to The Allies whole sale and let them drive fast as they could... as far East as they could. They could have shot to the Polish Border and shook hands with Ivan there.

They would have saved themselves a lot of destruction and dead Civvies not to mention Soldiers if the had have. Once a ceasefire was in place the Russkies would have had to cease and desist would'nt they ? Not sure of the dates but we may have got all of Czechoslovakia Hungary The Balkans and most of Poland as well. Krauts were not too smart. I would have slotted the top twenty and invited Ike Monty Bradley and Patton plus all the rest to high tea and gave them the keys to Germany. Then arrested the SS and all the Death Camps geezers and whacked the lot. I wonder why they listened to Adolf the Arsehole right to the last minute. Until Ivan the Terrible was blowing the fookin' Swastika off the Reichstag.

I don't get it

[Pat Harley]

Re: Monty visits the blokes....

Loyalty to the head of the cult! They were so big on unfailing obedience to The Leader,even unto death,that they just couldn't perceive disobedience or revolt! I've been watching some documentaries on cults,mostly of course in Yankland because they're the most gullible people on the planet,and it still amazes me how easily supposedly intelligent well educated people are taken in,brainwashed into doing unthinkable things by insignificant weird looking freaks.

[bob9739]

Re: Monty visits the blokes....

Your right Pat, the whole officer Corps of the German army had to swear an oath of allegiance to Hitler, shortly after he became chancellor . They knew that to violate that oath was punishable by death, there were also so many ardent Nazis within the corp itself that no one could be sure as to what the true feelings were of individual officers. A typical example was the Staufenburg plot to assassinate Hitler. An ardent Nazi called Otto Remer who was in charge of the Berlin Reserve Battalion put paid to that. The results for the participants within the plot were not pleasant, some were executed by being hung with piano wire from meat hooks, the results of which were filmed to be shown to Hitler. So yes in many ways I can understand why many were reluctant to rebel against Hitler.

[Gil]

Re: Monty visits the blokes....

I have always viewed Arnhem as "one that we didn't win".
Yes I think ego's played a massive part in the battle right across the board, and there were some great leaders there who had very little say once the action started, topped with bad comms what else could go wrong.
When XXX Corps should have pushed on regardless they stopped and enjoyed the sunshine and did in fact have their tea break as shown in the film its history and well recorded, as men of 2 PARA and other units who actually fulfilled their part of the bargain/operation fought bravely against the best Germany had, which weren't supposed to be anywhere near the place from up to the moment Intelligence briefs, and certainly before formations took off from England.
I think it had been planned too far to stop the ball rolling, and they went anyway, regardless what the intelligence was telling them were occupying the town and surrounding areas!!

Like many ops...........luck has so much to play in these things. Just think though, had it come off, millions would have been saved with the war ended early.
Probably akin to the Iranian Embassy Siege, all the planning and training for that, and that was close to disaster too, had it not been for luck and the locations of the terrorists!